Anchor and Rod Bend Video- Aitor Coteron

Here is a clip from Aitor Coteron’s Vimeo Channel with the accompanying quote from Aitor Coteron about the point he is making in the video.

If you strive to keep the load of your rod after the sweep up to the start of the forward cast, because you heard that is proper spey casting technique…. forget it, it is not possible!…Aitor Coteron…

He adds:  And don’t worry, it doesn’t matter at all, even if using a Skagit outfit.

Anchor and rod bend from Aitor Coteron on Vimeo.

On one hand I pretty much agree with him.  On the other hand the video would have made more sense to me personally if it were done on water because even if the rod does become unloaded (which it does) between the sweep and forward cast, it does seem like its slightly different with waterborne Spey casts.  Not that it matters.

I don’t even think there is a question in touch and go casting that the rod unloads, it absolutely unloads,  except sometimes there is enough tension in the system, or lack of slack, that the rod may feel a little loaded all the time. Especially if your a little loaded, which you shouldn’t be, even if your a little frustrated with this casting thing.

I spent years, YEARS, trying to keep my rod loaded (whatever loaded means) throughout the entire cast with less than stellar results. Now, I’m talking Skagit casting here where Ed Ward preaches constant motion and constant load.  I could do it, or at least come as close to making an entire cast with the rod somewhat loaded, as much as humanely possible, but the casts didn’t fit the bill of delivering a honking payload with much authority most of the time.

I will say that if you try to cast a huge payload with a small rod and line you definitely have to keep everything moving so the tip and fly don’t sink so far that they kill the cast.

As far as the constant load, (cl) continuous motion (cm) controversy I don’t worry about it. The friends I fish with most likely don’t even know about it.   When my rod becomes unloaded during the phase between sweep and forward cast I just try to keep a little tension between the rod tip and the line so as not to develop a ton of slack, although some casts seem to fly pretty good, even with a little slack, but I would not recommend slack, (at least not yet) particularly  if your trying to chuck the proverbial dead chicken style Steelhead fly.  Even in my most Skagity casting I prefer a pause for a fraction of a second before the forward cast. I’m more concerned that I give my D loop time to develop so it gets nice and tight before the forward cast. I don’t ever want to pause long enough to let my tip and fly sink too much, or my D loop collapse. I’ve found that when I do sweep with Skagit gear the head, sink tip and fly all to move backwards in the form of a D loop for a second and I have to drift back with it or pause and wait for it to get tight before I cast it forward. If I try to throw it before its ready my payload may lose traction, or I cast the D loop before its ready, which doesn’t end well.

Don’t get me wrong. I think Ed Ward is great, and very smart.  In his videos he sometimes pauses for a fraction of a second before the forward cast.

I thought this quote from Ed was a good one …

Yes, I still use the cm/cl (constant motion/continuous load) terminology. However, whether or not the cm/cl process is truly, technically, actually constant motion and continuous load may be a debatable matter that will have to be left up to more technical sources than I to prove or disprove. But, even so, my point in all of it is the fact that if there is indeed some pausing of motion or load in the cm/cl process, it is of such a brief span of time as to be unmeasurable by the vast majority of casters/anglers. If it is in fact unmeasurable by human senses, then in a context of teaching casting, its existence is pretty much moot in my opinion. However, as regards my current casting terminology, even though I still use cm/cl, I have also been adding in the use of ‘tension’ to describe the cm/cl process in an alternative way…Ed Ward on Speypages.

Ok, that’s about as technical as we are going to get here in regards to Skagit Casting.  It’s a very easy way to cast so there is no sense making it sound difficult.  Just keep your D loop properly inflated and you’ll do fine. If it hurts after the end of a day of fishing don’t get loaded, get some help, because whether you think your rod unloads or not, chucking Skagit line should be easy. Really easy.

 

21 thoughts on “Anchor and Rod Bend Video- Aitor Coteron

  1. One last thing regarding technique.

    If you study your video above you’ll see that leads to creeping. Try to reposition your rod without losing stroke length and casting angle.
    The tailing tendency you see in the forward cast is due to that creeping motion.
    Look here how a good repositioning in an oval cast tries to keep stroke length and casting angle:
    https://vimeo.com/110482819

    1. Ok, I watched the videos. There is a split second where I’m casting a Skagit head with one hand that I pause slightly before the forward stroke. Are you saying I should have paused longer, or at a different angle, or did I creep into the forward stroke from that point? Thanks for your comments. I’m eating it up.

      1. You need to pause… or not. The question is that you must start the forward cast when the line is tight: too much pause and the line loses tension; too short a pause and the D-loop doesn’t have time to form and align with the target in a waterborne anchor.
        Creeping means that during the pause you decrease stroke length, casting angle or both. Analyze your video above.

    2. I don’t see a creep after the slight pause, or the tailing loop. I do see that the bottom of my D loop is shorter than the Top and that the anchor is slightly behind me. So it is an uneven D loop. I thought the D loop was fully Developed but maybe it began to sag a little before the forward stroke. I’m unsure.

      1. I didn’t explain myself properly.
        When I say “pause” I mean the period between the end of the sweep and the start of the forward cast itself.
        In overhead casting drifting is done during the pause, in spey you reposition your rod during the pause.
        In other words, the sweep is when you apply force in order to form a loop, after loop formation comes the repositioning. During that repositioning you should avoid a decrease in the available arc for the forward cast. In your video above you finish the sweep wih the rod at 45 degrees, then you circle up and decrease the available arc by raising the rod tip up to 70 degrees.

          1. Ok, I studied these in depth and I think I get it. After the sweep when you drift into firing position you drift up and keep you rod angle pretty much the same, whereas I tilted my rod forward and shortened the length of my casting stroke.

            Nice casting by the way. Very good camera work. What camera?

          2. I analyzed your video. https://vimeo.com/131865641 emphasizing utilization of available casting angle and stroke length. Sure enough, when you drift you dont close the angle- so I payed special attention in my next practice session and it helped immensely with my tendency to fabricate tailing loops. Thanks for that.

        1. Ok, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification and your patience. So had I started the forward cast with my rod tipped back a little more there would be less tendency for a tailing loop. That makes sense. One of my sons has a habit of doing that even more extremely and it is a good way to develop a tailing loop! So now I see what your talking about.

  2. “I do know some casters emphasize (unless I just presumed that is what they were suggesting) power in the circle up as a way to force the anchor to slap down on the water. I have done this myself but as you say it does create a cat tail D loop instead of the V. Would you consider this a crutch or does the drift without force do the same thing, or is a correct incline rod sweep the proper way to ensure a solid anchor.”

    If you use the correct incline sweep with the right line speed a proper V-loop and anchor are assured.
    Think of an overhead cast, what do you do to get a narrow V shaped loop? Of course you try to describe a straight line path with the rod tip, without any curved motion. Look at the shape of the loops in this video, if you turn them upside down, aren’t they just the V-loops you are looking for in your spey casting?

    https://vimeo.com/155096987

    1. Thanks for the video link, Yes, I see what you are talking about. Very nice presentation. I find the v loop to be easier the longer the line, with shorter lines its a little more difficult for me. It’s mostly a matter of practice for me.

  3. “So in light of your comments, much of that which is considered constant load by some is merely the transition from the sweep to the key position by way of the drift, which has tension but no force and therefore no rod load?”

    Exactly. During the circle up to reposition the rod the force exerted on the line is so small that the amount of bend is minimal. So what? Nothing! The cast works perfectly well without that non-existent pre-load. The misinterpretation of basic physics has led to so much misconception in casting that what would be pretty easy to explain from the start now seems to be mission impossible.

    Forget about rod loading! The rod is not a bow! Rod bend helps mainly in keeping a straight path of the rod tip.
    The main problem here is that since it has been stated so many times over the years that everything good in casting is due to proper rod loading, and conversely any bad thing happening is due to the lack of load, casters trying to understand casting mechanics are heading in the wrong direction.

  4. Think of the drift in an overhead cast: I can make a complete casting cycle (backcast + forward cast) with constant motion, never actually stopping the rod.
    That does not mean that the back casting stroke continues till the loop straightens behind me! That continuous motion has two distinct elements: the stroke itself (where we apply force to form a loop) and the drift (which is a mere reposition of the rod without the intention of applying force to the line). It is the same in spey casting.

    One important thing to take into account: we don’t need to stop the rod to form a loop, we only need to cease accelerating it. If we are increasing the butt speed 1, 2, 3, 4 and then decreasing 3, 2, 1 a loop is formed at the instant when we go from 4 to 3. No stop needed. But, as I said above, the casting stroke has finished at 4 and we have ceased applying force at 4 as well. Force is not only motion, force is ACCELERATION.

    1. Wow, your blowing my mind. I had not even thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense and clears up some confusion for me. So in light of your comments, much of that which is considered constant load by some is merely the transition from the sweep to the key position by way of the drift, which has tension but no force and therefore no rod load?

  5. Thanks for your kind words and for appreciating my work Tim! For me it is a pleasure to discuss this stuff with those who like to think outside the box.

    By drift in the case of spey casting I mean that “circle-up” you mention.
    Take into account that the function of te sweep is to form a D-loop and get the ancho set.
    As soon as the line overtakes the rod tip and a loop appears the sweep is over. The loop starts because we have ceased applying force to the rod, so the rod unloads, the tip loses speed and the line overtakes it.
    After that we start what I consider to be a drift and you call a circle-up, the same motion whatever its name. That motion’s function is just to reposition the rod in a proper way for the forward cast. It is done almost without force for its goal isn’t to propel the line in any way. That is the reason for the lack of load in the rod during that maneuver: the rod bends due to a force being applied to it; no force no bend.

    It is true that common spey instruction talks about a curved sweep: like stoking the back of a cat up to its tail tip. It is feasible but that results in a tru D-loop, with a big D I mean.
    If the sweep is straight the result is a V-loop.

    1. Thanks Aitor this is great stuff and I’ve read it over and chewed on it a bit so I’m beginning to see my misconceptions on terminology. My thinking that the circle up might be part of the sweep because I was thinking of the arm, hand, body and rod movements but not giving enough emphasis on what the line was doing at the time the movements were taking place, so thank you for clearing that up. I do know some casters emphasize (unless I just presumed that is what they were suggesting) power in the circle up as a way to force the anchor to slap down on the water. I have done this myself but as you say it does create a cat tail D loop instead of the V. Would you consider this a crutch or does the drift without force do the same thing, or is a correct incline rod sweep the proper way to ensure a solid anchor. Thanks so much for your input.

      1. “I do know some casters emphasize (unless I just presumed that is what they were suggesting) power in the circle up as a way to force the anchor to slap down on the water. I have done this myself but as you say it does create a cat tail D loop instead of the V. Would you consider this a crutch or does the drift without force do the same thing, or is a correct incline rod sweep the proper way to ensure a solid anchor.”

        If you use the correct incline sweep with the right line speed a proper V-loop and anchor are assured.
        Think of an overhead cast, what do you do to get a narrow V shaped loop? Of course you try to describe a straight line path with the rod tip, without any curved motion. Look at the shape of the loops in this video, if you turn them upside down, aren’t they just the V-loops you are looking for in your spey casting?

        https://vimeo.com/155096987

  6. Hi there!

    I mostly agree with what you say. The key is in keeping your D loop in tension. Obviusly if the head length is very short the time needed for the loop to get tight is very short as well. But from the end of the sweep there is a pause in THE FORCE AAPLICATION, durong which we drift the rod to the key position.
    Nothing of this has to do with pre-load. IMHO the “load” concept is the most misleading of all to understand casting mechanics.

    On the other hand I respect Ed’s work as much as anyone (as I expressed to him in an old Sexyloops debate), it is just that I don’t agree in his explanation of the “whys”.

    Working at the moment in an article about this issue, with new slo-mo footage on water. I will published it here:
    https://onemorelastcast.net

    Cheers.
    Aitor

    1. Thanks Aitor for your comments. Yes, I believe we are on the same page as far as the constant load theory and respect for Ed Ward and his work. I agree with your comment about the pause in force application where we drift into key position, although in the case of some casters, such as Simon Gawesworth, I’m not sure where the sweep ends and the drift begins because the circle up maneuver sometimes seems to be part of the sweep, and not much if any drift occurs before the forward cast, unless the last part of the circle up is considered the drift. Its a little cloudy to me but thanks for weighing in I truly appreciate your comments! Its an honor to have you here!

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